| From | Message |
WipLash
R/T
 
2/07/2004
11:46:43
|
 Subject: RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Steve,
That's right. The metering rods on these things are a work of art. When the vacuum drops (part throttle and WOT) the metering rods "pop up" (spring loaded). The rods are stepped in their diameter. When they pop up the end of the rod is in the jet. This doubles the amount of area in the jet and you get more fuel. AT cruising speeds you have high vacuum condition and this pulls the metering rods further down into the jets. This decreases the area inside the jet that fuel can pass through. This is the key area of adjustment for fuel mileage. Strive for about 16.5:1. I have done 18:1 with no problems on BIG BLOCKS. Smaller bore size engines have better flame travel and can't run fuel mixtures that lean. By the way, I have an air/fuel ratio gage. The 5.2L mags are set at 14.7:1. There is a huge difference between 14.7:1 and 16.5:1. This won't affect your WOT. I actually made my own metering rods using a micrometer and some sand paper. I don't like the stepped rods. I made my rods tapered so that there would be a more linear fuel delivery at part throttle. You do have to be careful with the vacuum. Too big of a cam will cause the vacuum to drop down to where the metering rod springs will keep the metering rods in the up (rich/WOT) position all the time. That is easily fixed also. They sell weaker springs just for low-vacuum/big cam engines. I tweaked on these carbs for nearly 15 years. I had better success with the AFB than the AVS. In theory the AVS is better. The secondaries are more adjustable. You can adjust the AFB's secondaries. Take the top off the carb, pull the secondary shaft/weight/butterfly asembly out and drill 1/8" holes through the counterweight. Drill one hole at a time until you get the secondaries opening at the rate you want. Lighter counterweight=faster-secondary-opening. If you actually take too much weight off the CW, the engine will stumble and/or back-fire back through the carb. Just take the counterweight back out and stick a 1/8"brass rod into one of the holes you drilled. Cut the rod slightly longer than the C/W. With a pair of ViceGrips, crimp/smash the ends of the brass so they don't fall out. There's lots of tricks you can do on these carbs. Let me know if you need any help.
Where do you live?
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/07/2004
12:01:54
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
dr: See (www.engine-swaps.com/) for the mount solution you seek.
Whip. You know it man. My old '69 Charger managed to regularly get 18-19mpg in combined haul-ass driving (it had a rep, and I was 18 then). That was with a single-point ignition. Loved my AFB!!! It's what's goin' on my Dak if I ever get it finished.
steveo: I've always had great experience with Mancini. They're not the huge place like Jegs or Summit, so they don't have every little widgit, but as for Mopar, they have the goods.
Seems like I remember reading that Doug Thorley did headers with the tubes. Fabbing the headers for the lines is do-able if you're half-way decent with a torch and welder. Since you're looking at using a Magnum engine, you won't have the added difficulty of the individual exhaust ports and their air injection ports, so your idea is much less complicated.
The timing cover and other V6 stuff will swap. One point to remember...well, another one anyway, involves the fuel pump. Going with an electric pump will solve this particular issue easily. See, Magnums have cams with a nose that's about .2 inches shorter. This means the standard fuel pump eccentric that fits LA cams and actuates the fuel pump will not fit a Magnum cam. Hughes Engines sells a modified unit that will bolt in if you wish. If you go with an electric pump you will need to cut a little block-off panel to bolt over the opening in the timing cover, or buy a chromed one. The elctric pump will be more able to supply all the fuel you need than a mechanical one.
I know the serpentine belt system is supposed to be a great thing, but my dual v-belts never left me stranded. Girlfriend's Jeep popped a serpentine 4 miles from home in the middle of the night. Took me almost 2 hours to get that thing home. They don't call it "serpent"ine for nothing.
|
steveo2777787
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/07/2004
14:57:17
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
wip, im from around pittsburgh PA.
gen1, would it be smarter to get the new ecentric or convert over to an electric pump?
i may have asked this before, but do i have to change over to electric ignition or can i leave it points?
|
vern
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/07/2004
17:59:16
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
steve-you can use the points dist,
but the electronic dist is a better set up,its almost trouble free,no burnt points,dwell is constant,hotter fire etc
|
steveo2777787
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/07/2004
19:50:03
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
ok. im gonna run the points set up to start with and then save up for the electronic disrtibuter. any special year distributer that i should look for?
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
01:21:23
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
If you're gonna save up for an electronic setup, get the kits we've mentioned from Mopar Performance, or Mancini.
Go for the electric fuel pump. By the time you buy the modified eccentric you're already a good bit into what an electric would cost.
|
steveo2777787
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
10:15:25
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
ok. who makes a good electric fuel pump for relatively cheap? an what all would it take to install it. do i have to change the fuel lines? or can i use existings lines?
|
steveo2777787
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
10:21:38
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
o, and how many gph should it flow ?
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
14:02:06
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Well, I'll tell ya. I was just looking over a couple things. Prices have changed a bit. I mean, both a good mechanical or electric pump (70 gph) run about $60. I eased over to the Hughes site, and the eccentric extension is $18 + the cam bolt that's required $11, you run into a situation where, you could do this instead and save money now. If you ever needed to go electric (like with a big hp increase), that option would still be there, but with the mechanical setup, you'd be able to hook it up and wouldn't need the $80 pressure regulator either.
http://www.hughesengines.com/cams/camaccess.asp
You need #7013 and the required bolt #7010. Check them out.
Doing this will allow the stock fuel line setup to be retained.
On the Shelby, they used the Dakota Sport with stock fuel system, so after thinking some more about it, you should be okay unless you start really pushing for hp. Then you might notice a nose-over at high rpm, but not with a mild Magnum transplant. You could then go to an electric pump and run it inline. This mech. setup should get you goin' without issues.
|
vern
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
17:14:23
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
steve-you should,nt have to buy a thing for the fuel system pump,fuel pump button or bolt you have it all on your v6 motor now.
use that.
the gas lines you have on the truck will more than feed the 318.
first things first-motor[what yr]second-mounts[depends on yr]third-oil pan[from dak,durango 4x4]
forth-intake,carb[again depends on motor yr]600-700cfm more than enough for mild street
fifth-exshurst sixth-cooling seventh-ignition
eighth-being able to do and/or afford what you can,t
its easy for us to post what we think you should do,but the bottom line is your the one doing it
and paying the bill,make it enjoyable,fun and learn,NOT A PROJECT THAT YOU WISH YOU NEVER STARTED.
good luck and enjoy
vern
|
steveo2777787
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
17:17:43
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
ok, sounds good. im goin to run the 318 stock for a while until i save up cash to get a cam and such, so i am good with the mechanical fuel system?
onto the coolin fan issue, and particular brand i should look for? and how thick should the fan be ( for clearance issues)?
|
steveo2777787
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
19:38:27
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
thanks vern, im tryin to get all the info i need before hand to know exactly whats goin on with the whole swap. i want to know as much as possible so i have some idea on what to look for. i need to continue lookin around for a good donor motor. so now that i have some idea, this is the next big hurdle for me to cross, findin the donor.
about the transmission issue, its a stock 3speed w/o overdrive (w/ 69xxx miles on it), will it hold up to a fairly stock 318?
|
vern
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
19:51:04
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
its a 904,that came behind alot of 318s,your in good there
perma cool,black magic 14 or 16" should cool it
or maybe something off the newer suv,s
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
19:57:47
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Vern, as I understood steveo, he was planning on using a Magnum engine. As I have already explained, the fuel pump eccentric will not fit the Magnum cam without the extension from Hughes. If he uses an LA 318, he's okay without the extension.
|
steveo2777787
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/08/2004
21:49:13
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
ya, gen 1s right, i do plan on usin a magnum. bc im thinkin i can find one in better shape than a premag (lower miles & newer)
so the tranny is gonna hold up, would it be worth puttin a shift kit on it?
the wiring on the engine, just find a chiltons manual or somethin similar from a newer dakota or ram and use the wiring diagrahms to wire the 318? and just match the wiring to the 3.9s wiring usin the 87 dakota book? or is there anythin special i should know?
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/09/2004
00:43:04
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Definitely get a shift kit. The higher line pressure and quicker shifting with reduced overlap can only help. No promises. My A500 fried 7, count 'em, 7 times with nothing more than spirited driving. It was the overdrive every time. The aftermarket kits go a long way towards fixing these issues, but back then they weren't out yet, as far as I knew, and the internet? Well, that wasn't a word we used then. Spend the $ and get a good kit like one from TransGo. As for wiring.....there really isn't much on the engine, per se, especially if you're going carb, so use your truck as the foundation and adapt the Magnum to it. A good reference book is always a plus. When I got my Magnum, I got an FSM for '89, '93, and '98 to compare info, learn, and dispel the BS. From what I've seen, Chilton's manuals seem to be more detailed than Haynes.
|
steveo2777787
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/09/2004
18:49:46
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
ok sound good.
onto the actual engine.. what year magnum was built the best and had the most HP and torque? and wat was the average HP/torque output for the mags?
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/09/2004
19:28:25
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
'92-'93 Magnum 318's had the best cam. All '92's and early '93's had larger exhaust manifolds and head pipe (connecting the manifolds to the cat.). I believe the ratings were unchanged, but lazier cams came in '94 supposedly in response to buyers wanting more low-end torque (face it, they were dogs). The lift numbers remained the same, but the cam timing was less aggressive. The 360's had less cam lift (.410), while 318's had .432. Both used the same intake, TB, and heads. 318 was rated 230hp w/300 lbs torque, while the 360 was rated around 245hp/330.
dodgeram.org has some good info on these engines. Anyway, a '92 Dak with 318 managed as good as 14.90's. Things went downhill from there, but they all have potential. Just popping the 318 Magnum cam into the 360 Magnum would kick it up a nice notch.
The MP crate 360 with carb and base camshaft (.385 intake/.401 exhaust--smaller than the production cams--- is rated at 300 gross hp. Haven't seen anything about any year being better from a quality angle, but I'd hedge towards the early ones on that too.
|
steveo2777787
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/09/2004
20:43:25
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
ok thanks gen 1. wow, if i get those numbers with the 318 ill be amazed .. itll be doublin what i have now. i cant wait.. it just needs to warm up outside and i need to save up a bit more and then it begins..
thisll be my first real project big project. biggest one so far was completely redoin the brakes and lines. im really lookin forward to learnin.
-steve
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/09/2004
20:54:31
| RE: 87 4x4 V8 swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
I'm in the same boat. Looking back, hindsight and all, I'd have done things differently, but I've learned soooo much about things. When I do get this thing back together, it'll be an even better deal. I'm swapping in a 360 Magnum with a delightfully NASTY cam, M1, 750 AFB, and whatever else I can snag along the way. I'm pulling together the Magnum electronics as well, just in case the smog police decide to start checking things. I went to a yard today and there was a '90 RamCharger with one of those rare non-lockup 518 trannys. I can get it for $70, but man that's a lot of work to pull it out. I really want it. It'd eliminate certain issues, and I would still have the 46RE conversion to work with later. I may still go after it.
|
| | <<Previous Page P 2 Next Page>> |
