| From | Message |
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/09/2001
23:57:48
|
 Subject: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Have any of you tried a Jacobs Ignition system on your dakota?
http://www.jacobselectronics.com/products/energypaks/ultrateams/prostreetteam.htm
Did it help performace as much as they say it does?
Thanks,
Donald
|
4X4Tony
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
08:14:15
|  RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I'm sure there are guys out there who would praise Jacobs, but in my experience (I've owned and returned both an OmniPak and a ProPak - or whateverthehell it's called) it's just well marketed, expensive junk from a very shady, deceptive company.
Gimme MSD any day.
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
12:18:56
|  RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks for the reply.
A new ignition system is a last resort. I've added a Tornado Performance enhancer. I have a new header and electric fan ordered. I'm hoping those will help. I requested a catalog from MSD. I'll look over both.
Donald
|
4X4Tony
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
13:20:24
|  RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Dunno what you're looking for - MPG? 0-60? - but I installed an MSD Blaster SS coil, 6A spark box and SuperConductor wires, along with a Borg Warner brass cap and rotor, and saw an immediate 1.5MPG improvement. Also smoothed out the idle. I can't say I noticed any increase in performance.
|
Phillip Murph
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
14:10:23
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Donald,
How do you like to Tornado? Increased MPG as claimed?
Thanks,
Phillip
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
14:38:27
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
So far I like the tornado. I just installed it today. I've been driving around all day. I only have 1/4 of a tank of gas left. I'm going to fill up the tank and see if it get any more mileage. I did notice more power when pulling out from red lights. There isn't an interstate near me or i would have tested the top end performance. But i'm really impressed with it's power improvement. It's so easy to install, so far its my favorite Mod! I guess results may vary. My old 87 Dakota still has a Carb. It would be interesting to compare my results with someone who has an injector.
You all can check it out at www.tornadoair.com If you want to buy one, JC Whitney is cheaper by a few dollars, i think. Do you have one Phillip or are you considering buying one?
I'm looking for improved performance AND/OR gas Mileage. My 87 is a great truck. But the engine uses too much gas, and it has no power. I don't want to put in a v8 although i have the room under the hood. I've been told that a few mods can significantly improve performance and MPG. Electric fan is the most recommended Mod, followed by a new exhaust (header, pipes and muffler) I'm just trying the Header now. I don't want my dakota to be loud. I'll leave the muffler alone for now.
Donald
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
00:55:08
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Yeah I have a Jacobs Omni Torquer and I love it and have seen great throttle response, power, increase in mpg's, etc. An ignition system cannot deliver the same mpg increases as headers and things like that, so dont expect it, but there are lotsa other benefits of an aftermarket system than that. I know I am getting increased fuel burn, and their factory told me on my Dak that I should be seeing 96% when I set everything up correctly as they recommend. Not bad, considering my stock combustion engine gets 70%.
I also went 18,000 miles on new AutoLite plugs that were installed when the ignition was installed, and pulled them to see their condition. They didnt look new, but they sure looked close. No buildup, residue, corrosion, or anything. I didnt expect them to look that clean.
There are some things about the Jacobs systems that you need to know about if you are considering one:
1. You MUST use the cheap $.99 AutoLite plugs - nothing else will work with it properly. Do not use precious metal plugs, SplitFire, or anything funky.
2. You MUST increase these plugs' gaps from .35 to .55 to allow the greater range of spark firing to occur (or whatever their recommendation is).
3. Avoid using any other type of spark plug wires than what Jacobs manufactures. Dont sell the whole system short by using another competitor's plug wires.
I have found that when people have used the Jacob's systems and been disappointed, its usually been from one of the above mentioned circumstances were neglected, forgotten, or avoided.
If you install it and do as they say in their instructions and printed materials, you will see the gains they claim as I have. I am very satisfied and will never use any one else's ignitions but theirs.
(I am not an expert in electronics or anything, and have never used a competitor's systems - this is just my personal experience with their system)
Just my $.02
|
ram59d60
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
01:19:51
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
jacobs is not well established. i went with msd 6t module, blaster ss coil, 8.5mm super conducter wires and got great results in both mileage and performance on my 5.9 dak quad cab. one thing to remember about ignitions - the more mods you have done, the beteer the results will be from your fire source.
|
Wayne
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
14:19:14
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I tested Jacobs ignition system extensively as well as Tornado. Neither one gave me any gain in H.P. or M.P.G. I'm glad they had the money back guarantee. They were as useless as t*ts on a nun.
Jacobs wires do have the lowest resistance of any wires that I have ever tested and I do buy them.
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
15:43:26
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Wow, Wayne. Thats sad. Is your dak fuel injected or does it havea carb? Mine has a old fashioned carb, and it does have more power. There is no pause now when I hit the "passing gear". Before there was. WhenI pull out at red lights there is a difference. what other mods have you done? I guess a good engine can only get so good. I'm so satisfied with the tornado, i'm going to buy one for my Mom's Oldsmobile.
Jacobs Igniton systems are a little pricey... even with the 15% discount I would be getting. I'm hoping the header and electric fan will be enough. I"m running out of money. :) I was going to install the fan, but it rained today. Just my luck.
Donald
|
Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
18:13:19
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I sued a Jacobs system on my 85 Ramcharger with 360 4-bbl. It did everything they claimed it would do and I'd reccomend one for non computer controlled cars in a second. On modern motors I'm not sure the gains are worth the cost. At some point they would be after you have done many less expensive mods and are just looking for every once of power possible. I also agree you have to use simple plugs and put the gap way up. Before I changed the gap the Jacobs seemed to be doing very little, after opening the plugs up everything was awesome. No more hesitation, easy starting, lots more power, and at least a 4 MPG improvement. Well worth the $350 the complete setup cost (box, coil, wires). It held together fine with lots of saltly beach 4x4ing as well.
|
Wayne
Dodge Dakota
8/12/2001
11:05:34
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Donald, since trying it my son finished college in Mechanical Engineering. Liquid and gas flows are covered and Tornadoes are against theory. Sometimes theory and practice are different but after I talked to him about what happened I think it is all a farce. So far I have seen no independant hard data supporting the gains, only "butt" dynos and "feel". Here is the theory in MY words: To get the most power you need the most flow. Turbulence, swirl, and tumble reduce flow therefore causing a loss in power. The known exception is in the head area where outboard manufacturers have been using this effect for a better charge for over 20 years now and GM is using swirl and tumble technology in the heads of the LS1. It is only in the head area and not in the intake manifold that this is used.
As for my mods: GEN II, 180, pulleys, water wetter, Mobil 1 in motor and rear end, Fastman t.b., Kenne Bell headers and Y pipe, Flowmaster 2 chamber catback, and Trans Go shift kit. Hughes intake should be in this week. 1.7 rockers next.
I hear people say that this thing or that thing eliminates pauses or other short comings. I am pleased to say that I don't have those problems in my car or truck now or when they were new. My only mods are for more H.P. (smilie face here)
|
Manuel
Dodge Dakota
8/12/2001
11:48:38
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
It is my intention to replace my ignition. Leaving the debate as to whether or not Jacobs does what they claim aside, I am looking at MSD. That stands for Multiple Spark Discharge. Educate me, please. MSD claims that by releasing multiple sparks at lower RPMS, you would seen an increase in low-end tourque. Now, I'm not a wrenchhead by any means, so this makes sense to me. It also tells me that for MY use (4x4, low speed trails) MSD would be the right choice, wouldn't it?
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
8/12/2001
15:03:51
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Well you have the right idea by breaking down exactly what your intended use will be and defining it. I like the Jacobs because its circuitry inside the box corresponds directly with the throttle positions sensor, camshaft position sensor, the entire computer, to determine the needs of the engine. Passing? Going up hills? Idling? Speed? Towing? And the ignition system will accomodate and supply the necessary spark to meet the demands of the engine and its changing RPM range. This is the biggest difference between Jacobs and the others.
I could be wrong, but I think the MSD will provide a consistent spark throughout the whole range of RPM's, whether idling or passing or whatever.
Whatever you decide, you can get great prices on eBay. I bought my Jacobs system there used 18 months ago and still works as if was bought new, for about half the price of new and the same cost of buying an MSD new.
Either way you will be happy with your upgrade. If you decide to use a Jacobs, make sure you integrate what I mentioned in my previous post.
|
Wayne
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
07:32:47
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Manuel, multiple sparks, theroretically, burn a greater percentage of the mixture as opposed to a single spark. That is where you get this extra power. This works but we have had some bad experiences with the durability of the MSD products and no longer use them. On the other hand, the Jacobs claims are only valid when the stock system is not performing up to standard. They are a "bandaid" to an electrical system with a poor performing component or a bad state of tune. I checked my electrical system to be sure it was performing up to standard before installing the Jacobs system. That is the reason the Jacobs system did nothing for my truck.
|
Manuel
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
08:59:16
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
So then what ignition system do you recommend, Wayne? My understanding is that while some of the other manufacurers don't give you multiple sparks, they can give you a stronger, more sustained spark, which should also increase performance. I don't want to buy one if its just a band-aid for something thats not working right.
|
Wayne
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
15:13:26
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I gave up on aftermarket electronics and, therefore haven't kept up with the latest and best. BUT if I were forced to go buy today, I would get the MSD even with the bad luck we had. Most people don't have the reliability problems that we have experienced with MSD. The only case that we know that we have to have more spark is on our motors with blowers. The MSD stuff on my son's Tee bucket has been holding up for 3+ years now.
|
sandman
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
15:50:56
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Manuel Capacitive discharge system realy only shine when you are running a setup that has problems keeping the combustion process going. By sparking for 20 degrees of crankshaft rotation you have time to reignite a combustion charge that failed to ignite or went out before it ignited fully. If you lose one cylinder dureing a race your power output is cut in half. If the spark continued past 20 degrees then you would run a risk of igniteing a fresh intake charge with the intake valve still open. These multi spark setups do not tell you that each of your multiy spark at the plug will be alot weaker then a single spark system with the same coil. Value wise it is hard to beat a nice strong coil, good plug wire and plug and an ignition module that increases dwell time. I bet you could get some sort of ignition module for dodge products that would increase dwell time. Check out the accel super coil and Mallory's Pro coil. They are both huge and with plenty of dwell time you will easily doulbe the energy that is at the plug with a stock setup.
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/19/2001
21:56:38
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I bought one of the high end Jacobs systems. I'll keep you update as to how it performs :)
Everyone who reset the gap seems to got a good powerboost as well as a cleaner, smoother, and more efficient engine with a jacobs system.
Donald
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
8/19/2001
22:10:11
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Donald - don't forget to use a Jacob's set of plug wires, and also a cheap set of Champion or AutoLite plugs, usually around $.99 each. Don't use a precious metal plug or SplitFire or anything like that. Won't work for you.
Let us know your gains.
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/19/2001
22:32:03
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I bought new plugs (Autolite 3923's) and gapped them at .055. My JAcobs system came with wires. I got it at JC Whitney. I got 15% off of the price. It was the cheapest i could find.
They said it would be custom made at the factory and shipped to me in 3-4 weeks. I would have ordered it last month had i known that! I hope it helps, or i guess i just wasted a whole lot of money :)
Donald
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
12:24:09
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Don't worry. You will like it. Which system did you get? Omni Torquer? Mileage Master? ????
Do you have any other mods??? Is this going into a Generation I?
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
14:52:19
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
It was the Pro Street Ultra Team.
http://www.jacobselectronics.com/products/energypaks/ultrateams/prostreetteam.htm
Yeah, I have a generation 1. I have other mods planned like an electric fan, which i'm going to install today or tomorrow, new headers, which are in the process of being shipped to me.
I have already installed a "fuel master" and a tornado performance enhancer.
Donald
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
15:19:46
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
What is a fuel master?
Also, I was told by the local dealer that there is a safe 2" of space behind the firewall for mounting the unit. I have mine right at the top of the firewall, right in the middle, right above the distributor. Mounting is easy if you do it there.
Will your system require the stock coil too? If so, the plug wire that goes into it will not fit well as those coil noses arent made for it. Will require some extra modification in that.
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
20:33:41
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks, I hope the installition goes well. I hope it works well.
Donald
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
22:43:49
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I'm sorry, I meant Fuel Boss. It is a device that you put on your fuel line that prevents carbon and varnish buildup, while improving MPG and reducing pollution such as CO, CO2, and others.
Its only 21.95 at jcwhitney.com. With it, and the tornado air in place, i've incresed gas mileage by 3 to 5 MPG. Impressive.
Donald
|
bj
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
21:54:52
| RE: Nology ignition system ??
IP: Logged
Message:
With all the discussion, has anyone tried the Nology system. There web site has some great white paper discussing the diff's between it and MSD systems. I'd like to know what some of you think. If I go with a system I'm planing on the Nology. I've got a 00 dak 3.9 CC.
www.nology.com/hotdetail.html
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
8/31/2001
00:05:09
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Well, here goes.. I have my new Jacobs system. I plan to install it over the weekend. I hope it works well. I hope i can find a place to mount it. I hope i don't drill through anything and mess it up.
Donald
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
8/31/2001
01:45:59
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I put mine right in the middle, right at the top, right above the distributor cap. Fits perfectly there. The Secondary Trigger is just to the left of it. I purposely made the ignition box and the secondary trigger close to the coil.
Dont forget to increase the plug gap, with new $.99 plugs! Get them from .35 to .55
If you still have money left over, consider a JET Stage II chip. You should upgrade to more power tuning rather than stock tuning. This will require 91 octane, but the combination of your headers, ignition, and chip sure makes a mean machine.
Upgrades are a BLAST! I hate working on my truck sometimes, but when its installing an upgrade I love it!
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
9/01/2001
21:30:43
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I love when up grades work. Everything i try to install is way worse than expected. I got the Jacobs system working. the engine started. That was a good thing :) I didn't get the chance to really test it out. I'll test it tomorrow.
I cut my finger 3 times trying to get the wire to fit the old coil. The new headers made it very difficult to change the plugs... very very difficult. I bet it took 2 hours to change the plugs. But I finally got it done.
I hope it runs better. I didn't notice a smoother idle
|
Doch80
Dodge Dakota
9/02/2001
01:35:06
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Don't feel bad Donald, when my dad and I try to install something, it always ends up taking an extra couple of hours.
Doch80
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
9/02/2001
19:23:57
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
TigerDak,
You were right! My old Dak ran so rough at idle it was awful. I was told by 10 mechanics that it would never be smooth. Now, the idle is so smooth! My acceleration was great, too. I pulled out at an interestion and pushed the gas down and was passing everything in sight. Before i had to pull into the slow lane and let everyone pass me! :)
I LOVE IT!!!
My old 87 has new life!
Donald
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
9/04/2001
00:21:17
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Congrats on ressurrecting your '87 Dakota! Makes the truck run strong, smooth, and really nice. I had the same darn problem making that wire fit onto those older coils. Finally, I just fitted the coil and the ignition box about 1" apart from each other, and that wire sits right there sandwiched in between them both snug and happy, and NOT slipping off!
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
9/04/2001
13:29:32
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
I got mine to stay on by using those little blue ties that came with the system... It runs so smoothly now, i'm shocked. I was told that i would NEVER get that engine to be smooth!
The best mod i've put on my Dak so far. Tiger, what year is your dak?
Donald
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
9/04/2001
18:53:34
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Mine is an '89 Sport 4x4 convertible. I have done a K&N open air element, Jacobs Omni Torquer ignition, Mopar Performance headers, Borla muffler, custom 2.5" exhaust pipes, a Stage II JET chip, a K&N oil filter, K&N crankcase breather, disconnected the smog pump, no cat. Those are my performance mods. I have suspension mods, too.
I am getting 18.75 mpg on highways now, and about 16 around town. Pretty good, considering its a 4x4, lifted 2", body lift another 2", and 31x10.5 BF Goodrich tires on there.
With that Jacobs ignition, I can go down to a smog checking station, and pass, without a cat! (That is the exhaust pipe test only, not the visual part of the test). I believe you can get any engine running very efficiently, including Generation I Dakota's.
|
Donald
Dodge Dakota
9/04/2001
20:45:02
|  RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
Mine is, of course, an 87 4X4.
I've added an electric fan, new Edelbrock headers, Jacobs Pro Street Ignition system, Tornado Air performance enhancer, Fuel Boss, KN Air Filter.
I routinely run Cat Converter Cleaner through the engine at every oil change, along with water remover to keep the engine running at its best.
I would take off the cat, but as some one said before, I'm a "treehugger" haha but anywayz, It's performing great with it on, so i see no reason to take it off.
I'm also about to do somethings to the cooling system. I 'm adding coolant additive to make it cool better along with a rust inhibitor.
About how long will the plugs last? is 10,000 miles too long to too short to change them?
Donald
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
9/04/2001
21:53:47
| RE: Jacobs Ignition System
IP: Logged
Message:
let me put it this way. When I got my new Jacobs ignition, I installed new Champion plugs, the $.99 ones. I then pulled them out at 18,000 miles to check. They didnt look brand new, but they sure looked close. Hardly any discoloration, buildup, or anything at all on there. That is one advantage of having an ignition system that can customize the spark per RPM demands. Also, with your ignition system being superior to mine, you will see 100% fuel burn (actually 98% as 2% is water to lubricate the pistons). I am getting 96% per a Jacobs employee. Still pretty good. Our Gen I Dakota's get about 70% when stock.
This means hardly any carbon deposits inside the engine from here on out. This is how the engine can last up to 40% longer with these ignitions on there.
Tell me about your electric fan. What kind is it and the model number, if possible. Was the installation complicated?
Any cat earlier than 1991 has a honeycomb type interior, and is every restrictive. You might consider replacing it with a free flowing one if possible. When I took mine off, I got an extra 1-1.5 mpg gain!
But getting back to the question on plugs, I might let them go on and on until they need to be replaced. How long is that? That remains to be seen.....
|
| | P 1 Next Page>> |
