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BMan
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2007
09:56:40
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 Subject: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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I got a couple of Mopar books I got has very good info on the Magnum engines but somethings in it I question. One is that it says the 360 still has the same intake/exhaust valve sizes as the older models.
Intake 1.88"
Exhaust 1.60"
So the 318 Magnum heads should be worth some HP on the 360.
Also the cam in the 318 is much better for performance as my DesktopDyno shows but I was also using the 318 Magnum valve sizes.
Can someone measure the 360 valves and confirm this?
Bottom line, put the 318 cam and heads on a 360 and get 420 lbs of torque @ 2000rpm and more HP and torque than the 360 to about 4000rpm!
BMan
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2007
14:41:41
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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The 360 Magnum valves are the same size as the 360LA. You are correct that the 318 Magnum has slightly larger valves (as opposed the the 318 LA which are considerably smaller). Likewise, while the 318 LA had a pathetic cam, the 318 Magnum has more cam than the 360 Magnum (the 360 Magnum gross valve specs, again, are the same lift as the 360 LA). With the LA, putting 360 parts into the 318 was the way to go, but with the Magnum, it's the other way around. With a little poking around, you can have very cheap upgrades.
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BMan
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2007
14:58:06
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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If you look at the 300/320hp 360 Crate engine, it has a smaller cam than the Stock 318 Magnum. Duration is the same at 250/264.
318 stock lift is .432/.432"
360 Crate lift is .385/.401" How pathetic!
BMan
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Kota Kid
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2007
18:22:42
|  RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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What is more pathetic the fact that a 360 crate motor has a smaller cam than a factory 318 magnum, or that the crate motor makes 70 more hp with the smaller cam and a carburator?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2007
18:41:51
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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It just proves the potential of the engines with a decent cam.
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any one
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2007
18:45:19
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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i have read that i can put mag heads on my 318LA
can i also go with a Mag roller cam?
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RAMMER
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2007
15:44:25
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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THE HEADS ON THE 318 AND 360 ARE THE SAME. I HAD THE IDEA IF THE CHAMBERS ON THE 360 WERE SMALLER THEN ON MY 318 IT WOULD RAISE THE COMPRESSION. I WAS TOLD BY ALOT OF MACHINE SHOPS AND EVEN THE DEALER THE HEADS, INTAKE,TIMING CHAIN SET, OIL PAN,ARE ALL THE SAME. I WOULD SUGGEST SOMEONE ACTUALLY TAKES BOTH THE 360 AND 316 PARTS SIDE BY SIDE AND COMPAIR THEM FOR THIM SELVES AT LEAST ON THE MAGNUMS
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BMan
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2007
15:47:28
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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yUP, THAT WAS MY ORIGINAL SUGGESTION/QUESTION.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2007
23:31:13
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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Yes, you can use the Magnum cam, pushrods, and lifters (they're drop-ins) as long as it's a roller-block LA, otherwise you'll need some other way to secure the lifters...and to use the roller cam, you need roller lifters. Just remember that the Magnum cam specs are determined using 1.6:1 rocker ratios, which, if used with a Magnum head swap is fine. Using the Magnum cam with the LA head setup and the 1.52:1 rockers would cause a major performance drop. Also, the Magnum cam is about a quarter inch shorter than the LA cam. The extra length on the LA was for the mechanical fuel pump eccentric. Magnums were never intended for mechanical fuel pumps, so either a modified cut-down eccentric must be used for a mech. pump, or an electric pump must be used.
Hey RAMMER, instead of acquiring two engines and comparing them, why not just get the book written by someone who has already done it?
"How to Build High Performance Chrysler Engines" Covers Slant 6, A, LA, Magnums, B/RB, and Hemi engines.
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any one
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2007
00:21:57
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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ok gen1dak
*as long as it's a roller-block LA*
theres a differance in the LA blocks?
it's currently has a flat tappet (lifter) cam
i know about matching the mag cam with roller lifters just trying to make sure before i went and bought the parts that they would fight & work
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BMan
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2007
06:10:11
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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I think '89 - 92 was the non-Magnum roller cam. Not a performance monkey by any means.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2007
14:22:03
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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By reference to roller engine, the roller engines have the "spider" retainer plate to hold the roller lifters in their bores. Flat tappet lifters spin in their bores to minimize wear, roller lifters must remain in one position to keep the rollers positioned on the cam lobes properly. Basically, a roller block has the holes for the bolts to secure the "spider plate" to hold the rollers in place, that's all. You can easily use flat tappets in the non-Magnum roller LA engines. Crane offers a different method of securing the roller lifters on non-roller LA's if you're up for the added cost, or you could get the spider plate from a roller Mopar V8, drill and tap your own holes......
You just cannot use the roller cam with flat tappets.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2007
14:31:48
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0307_converting_hydraulic_roller_cam/
There's an example of the spider plate here. Scroll down almost half way, there's a pic.
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any one
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2007
10:43:13
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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thank you gen1 you've been extremely helpfull
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SteveUK
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
07:20:16
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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Hi there, this is my first post here.
I was glad to find this thread as I have been having some of these questions myself considering my options with a pair of complete Magnum engines I bought at the end of last year (one 318 and one 360). The 360 is year 2000, the 318 is late '90s.
If you want me to compare any parts of these engines side by side then please ask, they are both sitting on the floor of my workshop at the moment.
The 318 has dropped a piston but the 360 is excellent and very low mileage.
Before I go on I should tell you that I am in the UK so there is very little local knowledge or support on these issues.
I am building up the best engine from the pair to put into my '72 'cuda, which currently has a 1976 360 LA in it. I want to keep the LA 360 together to go into another car.
From this thread it seems that it would be a good idea to put the Magnum 318 cam into the Magnum 360 for better power ??
We have no smog laws here for vehicles as old as this so I have acquired a Holley 600 and M1 dual plane (Magnum) intake to go into the set up. I will use the stock Magnum exhaust headers as I hate tube headers.
I was looking at after market Magnum cams but there aren't many and they are rather expensive. I am trying to do this on a reasonable budget.
I was lucky to pick up cheap a set of brand new 2.02 intake valves with Magnum size stems (P5249878) and I was thinking of fitting these to the Magnum heads. Since I have two sets of heads I thought I would build up the motor with stock heads/valves and then play with the spare heads later.
I want a free revving combo but nothing stupid as this is mostly for street use. In practice I doubt I'll want to go much over 4,500. I'll keep stock valve springs for now.
Any thoughts you guys have would be welcome.
If you want to know more about my project read on:
I am swapping an LA front end over onto the Magnum (timing cover etc.) to keep the car looking stock. These parts are coming off a mid-'80s 318 LA motor which I also have lying around.
I think I have finally sussed out the correct damper and flex plate combo - I will use the smaller 318 Magnum converter (zero balance) with an after market 360 magnum externally balanced flex plate.
I am acquiring a 360 magnum externally balanced damper compatible with the LA crank pulley fitting.
I will use the 727 transmission which came with the 360 Magnum (there is a 727 already on the car, but with such low miles on the new transmission I think it makes sense to make this swap - I think it is a straight swap).
The Magnum 360 oil pan has been punctured by the guys at the scrap yard but I think the 318 Magnum pan will swap over.
In case you're interested the rear axle is 8 3/4 3.23 suregrip.
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SteveUK
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
07:44:04
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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I've also just seen this thread !
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/per/13343.html
I guess I need to see exactly what year my 318 is and measure the valves on that one.
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SteveUK
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
09:51:40
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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OK, me again, I just took a micrometer to these.
As close as I can measure with the valves still in the heads the 318 valves are as follows:
intake - 1.92 inch
exhaust - 1.613 inch
from the casting number I think the engine is 1995 but I'm not sure (1st digit is a 5)
By the way - the exhaust casting measures at 2 1/8 inch internal diameter, as noted in the other post for earlier examples.
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BMac
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
09:57:32
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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Hey Steve,
What's the measurements on the 360 valves?
My book says they are the old style size of 1.88" and 1.60"
BMac
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SteveUK
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
10:07:52
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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Sorry, I can't measure the 360 valves because the heads are still bolted on the block.
Unless it is really worth swapping them for the 318s I am going to leave them on there.
I'm not sure what difference 40 thou bigger valves would make - not a lot I would guess, but maybe I will be persuaded otherwise.
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BMac
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
10:08:35
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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Hey Steve,
What's the measurements on the 360 valves?
My book says they are the old style size of 1.88" and 1.60"
BMac
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SteveUK
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
10:26:36
| RE: 360 Valves Smaller than 318's?
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echo !
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