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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2004
09:37:03
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 Subject: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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I have been reading up on cheater nitrous systems a bit. No ignition retardation needed. 30hp shots, 10 minute install, $50. Anyone used one of these fly-by-night kits? Is it worth the money?
Where would you get these mini-bottles filled at anyways
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Blue2000_R/T
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2004
17:04:05
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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A 30 shot on a V8 you will not even recognize I tryed the 75 on my truck and I could not tell a diff. A 30 shot might get you .2 .25 in the quarter mile if you are lucky.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2004
21:40:39
| re: nitrous - cheater
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What? You couldn't even notice a 75 shot? Was something wrong? How could you not notice a 75hp increase?
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Blue2000_R/T
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
02:31:17
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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nothing was wrong, 75 on a v8 is not that noticeable the 100 shot I could notice a diff. and my 125 was a big diff.
This is what I have found. A 75 shot on a dakota will get you a little more than half a second off of your 1/4 mile time stock, which is a little more than a car length. so over 15 seconds you are makeing up that car length so it is only pulling a little bitt harder than stock.
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
08:19:25
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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Okay I just thought of something. If a 75 hp increase wasn't even noticeable, then why would you even bother buying an intake system, exhaust, headers, and H/O cam, or Ported TB? Your telling me that the 40hp increase that these mods give you isn't noticeable despite what everyone says who has them? Something doesn't seem right, you should be able to notice a 30hp difference. 10% or better improvement in performance is noticeable. Saying that 100hp isn't quite noticealbe but saying 125 is, virtually destroys your statement about 30 hp being un-noticeable. I'm not being a jerk, I just thought your statement didn't make sense to me.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
17:52:13
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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I sorta agree. I can see 30hp being hardly noticeable, but anything over 50hp you will feel.
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
23:04:24
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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The cheater kits such as sneeky pete advertise up to 1/10th reduction in 1/4 mile time. I wouldn't expect to feel much difference.
If you cant tell a difference with 75 more hp then something is wrong. I don't care if it's a 3 cylinder geo metro or a 12 cylinder jag. Unless your have some 800whp beast 75hp is going to make a difference. I wouldn't expect to start taking out vipers or vetts but you may gain upwards of about 4/10th's of a second.
BTW the power curve of a boosted motor is different then a N/A motor. With the N/A motor the power is going to be more linear and instant while the boosted motor will be more sudden.
You would have to look at the dyno charts to fully understand, but take two identical trucks, one making 250whp boosted and one making 250whp N/A most likely the N/A truck will beat the boosted one. You have to compare the usable power under the curve.
For instance my car it makes about 280hp (at the wheels) I run consitant mid 12's. It got a turbo. Simular cars without a turbo that run simular times only need about 220whp.
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GGalarmtec
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2004
01:25:19
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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30HP?
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GGalarmtec
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2004
01:25:58
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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30HP?
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Blue2000_R/T
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2004
15:37:48
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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Well anyone that would like to go buy a kit and test it out be my guest. I put the 75 shot in and I thought It wasent spraying. I have 2 Freinds that live in the area that and they both have bottle fed R/T's as well and they both said that the 75 is sh*t that they thought that it wasent working as well. I know that some of it in our case is that I am at 4000 ft. alt. I live in northern utah.
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Blue2000_R/T
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2004
15:57:57
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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Also hybrid I have never seen a car with 220hp run a 12, like the dakota you have to have 340 to run mid to low 13s and almost 400 to break into the 12s.
I know a lot more about forced induction than N/A applications I had a 91 eclipse pushing almost 600hp and I was only in the 11s.
Horse power is horse power whether you are forced ind. or not the only thing is is spool up. If you have two cars running 320hp and the boosted has good spool up, if he gets the turbo moving off the line then they will be almost Identical if they are the same weight, but if you have the big boys like with like a 70+ trim then he is not going to hit full boost untill he is in 2nd gear.
Weight is also a big factor if you have a Fbody racing a DSM and they both have 320 hp the DSM will walk all over the Fbody where the DSM is a boosted 4G63 4cyl with a 50 or 60 trim however the setup is and the Fbody is a N/A LS1. So you cant say N/A will win all the time because there are so many diff. factors that you have to look at.
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BIGTYMER
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
09:28:46
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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You can feel it pick up with a 75 shot but it's not like it slams you back in the seat. It feels like you're at about 3/4 throttle and then lay it the rest of the way down. My 4x4 ran a 15.8 but I was killing the top end limiter before the end of the track. Should run a mid 14.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
16:10:19
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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You must be talking 1/8 mile, Hybrid. It takes way more HP to dip into the 12s
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Joey
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
21:54:20
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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i have an r/t with headers, no cats, dynomax ultraflow 3" muffler, no tailpipe, cold air, F&B 50mm TB, mopar m1 manifold, B&G M1 flash, HS 1.7 roller rockers, 180 thermo and some other small mods. say i just wanted to try out a 30 or 50 shot on the track one day by just connecting a hose to my k&n air intake tube to a nitrous bottle inside my truck and just go down the track and like halfway down the track turn the open the bottle by hand al;lowing the nitrous to go into the intake tube and into the throttle body. would this damage the engine considering i do have a timing advance from the flash or would it be small enough of a shot that it would be safe?? thanks.
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2004
16:26:28
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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Jag.
My car weighs 2,300lbs with me in it. 280whp (about 322hp at the crank.) . I can scan the time slips from pacific raceways in kent washington if you like. I run low 8'S in the 1/8th mile and mid 12's in the 1/4 mile I can list my set-up if you would like but I have a feeling that you don't know a whole lot about honda's (not meant to be derogatory).
My slip reads as
R/T .458
60' 1.99
330' 5.445
1/8th 8.158
MPH 91.93
1000' 10.489
1/4 12.448
MPH 116.16
Do the math if you feel like it there are several "hp" or "ET" calculators out there on the web, of course those are just estimates...
Believe it or not, but I'm out at pacific raceways or evergreen speedway every chance I get so if anybody that lives around here cares to come watch i'll be out at evergreen speedway on the 17th.
It's the only white civic coupe with dot slicks.
"Blue200_RT"
Please re-read my post I never said the N/A vehicle would ALWAYS win.
600whp and only 11's?? must have been a gs-t and bald street tires. I've seen eclips's with 400hp break into the 11's (awd gsx)...
If you know so much about turbocharged cars then you would also know that a boosted engine may make more peak power, but there is less power under the curve. Compare dyno charts, one of a boosted motor making say 300whp and one of a N/A motor making 300whp. the N/A engine will have a broader power band. But as you said there are to many other factors to say who would "Actually" win the race (Driver ability plays the biggest role) Just because you have the power it doesn't mean that you can put it down to the pavement like you proves with your ecplise.
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Blue2000_R/T
Dodge Dakota
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9/12/2004
04:24:12
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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My eclipse was awd and DSMs are my life one of my friends is pussing 450 and he is in the 11s but he is pushing 15psi of boost off the line. My car dynoed more than his but because he can be spooled off the line he beats me. My car was also pushing 29-32 psi when it got spooled. so in 4th gear dyno he is at 24 psi and I am at 29-32 so I get better numbers. the power curve all depends on spoolup a evo3 turbo will have a verry quick pickup on the curve then fall on its face top end, where as a gt-14 will have a slower up climb and keep climbing all the way up (slower but higher power curve)
Joey
If you just spray nitrous you will mess up the motor verry quickly there is more to it than just sticking it in the intake. all nitrous is, is an oxidizer if you dont have fuel you will run lean and knok. if it is a wet kit then it will be the easyest just screw the line into the schader valve (like the thing on your car tire where you air in) on your fuel rail then you are good, you have to remove the valve stem so make sure you keep it. If you have a 5.9 then the dry kit will not work the fuel press. reg. is inside the fuel tank and it is electronicaly maintained at 55 psi. If you have another mother with a engine bay mounted fuel press. reg. then tap in to the vacume line that goes to it and you will be set.
Remember nitrous is not what makes the power fuel is what makes the power. Nitrous is like forced induction chemicaly done, it tricks your moter in to thinking that there is more air than there really is to make your fuel burn quicker.
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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9/12/2004
12:30:53
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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So now we agree the the broader the power curve the better chance that vehicle has of winning?
A N/A motor generally builds power from off idle to reline while a F/I motor builds power from spool-up to redline (unless it's a factory turbocharged car, they tend to run smaller turbo's for quicker spool and more drivability)...
Not trying to pick at your post but I just wanted to point out that your last sentence is half rite. You are correct about the fact that n20 doesn't make power, it's combustion of the extra fuel and extra air mixed then ignited. It doesn't trick the motor into "thinking" that there is more air molecules, there actually is more air molecules. N20 is 2 parts oxegen 1 part nitrogen, so you are cramming more air into the combustion chamber with n20 and thats why you need more fuel. N20 + no extra fuel = lean condition.
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Joey
Dodge Dakota
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9/12/2004
14:13:11
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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oh ok, i figured a little 30 shot dry wouldnt hurt but ok i guess i wont give it a try. thanks.
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blue2000_R/T
Dodge Dakota
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9/12/2004
18:36:07
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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I know there are more oxegen molecules, people that dont know how nitrous works genrally dont know anything about molecules. so that is how i explain to the people that dont know what is going on with motors they understand better
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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9/12/2004
20:00:35
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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Ok, Just wanted to point out the difference between "actually" cramming more air in and tricking your motor into "thinking" there is more air being crammed in there...just didn't want to miss-inform anybody.
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Kevin
Dodge Dakota
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9/15/2004
01:49:32
| RE: Cheater Nitrous a joke?
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Has anyone notice that at first you can feel the difference then a week later you want more HP because now you are used to it and it does not feel the same. I dynoed my R/T at 288.2 rwhp a week later I thought something was wrong because it did'nt feel "as fast" and it dynoed at 296.5 The need for speed. When is it enough? Maybe parchute and roll cage!!!
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