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intense99dak
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
18:46:20
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 Subject: amp bridging
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Message:
Hi All,
I am getting ready to rework my system a little and was wondering a couple things about my amp.
My current amp is an Orion CS500.5 5 channel (50x4 + 100x1) and it's currently driving two pair of Alpine coaxials and one 8" sub.
I want to remove the front Alpine's and put in a set of components with a RMS of 100w. If I remove the rear speakers from the amp (and drive them with the HU) and bridge the rear channels with the front channels will I be changing the amps output from 50w to 100w? Also, am I changing the amp from 4ohm to 2ohm?
Also, I was playing around with the idea of adding another subwoofer with a RMS of 100w. Am I going to harm the amp if I split the single 100w channel to both subs or am I going to harm the subs by doing this? I realize that I am decreasing the subs power input by doing this, but if I turn the sub gains up can I compensate a little?
Hopefully I explained everything well, but considering I am a definite newbie to sound systems it wouldn't surprise me if I left something out.
Thanks,
Chuck Robbins
'99 Sport
www.intense99dak.com
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dgedak99
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
20:39:03
| RE: amp bridging
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hey! when you bridge that amp, you will be getting 100 x 2 at 2 ohms. So total, youll get 100 x 2 at 2 ohms and 100 x 1 at ? depending on the ohms of the subwoofer. If you do bridge the amp to run 100 x 2, make sure that your amp is 2 ohm stable or grab a fire estinguisher.Youll turn your 5 channel amp into a 3 channel amp. Using the head unit as an amp for the rear speakers is a great idea.... rear fill should be very minimal and buying an amp for them is a waste of money. Make sure you attach the rear channels to the rear set of the head unit so it becomes fadable. As for adding another sub, i need more info on it. are you going to use the same amp? the 8' sub you have now, is it a 4 , 6, or 8 ohmer? Let me know and ill help u out asap.
check out my system if you have the chance....under the audio forum here, look at "check out my system" by dgedak99 and check out my link....just make sure that you check out both pages! Later!
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
20:42:48
|  RE: amp bridging
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Message:
Check the owners manual for the amp, it will tell you if you can bridge it and what loads it can take before meltdown occurs.
Orion makes good stuff, so chances are you can put the two channels together (F+R) and double the output (50 X 4 = 100 X 2). Generally if an amp can drive 2 ohms in stereo it can drive 4 ohms in mono. Only good amps with large voltage rails can give the true doubled output RMS - that's why I think you'll be OK with that Orion. I run HiFonics and they can handle it with no problem.
As for the subs it depends on the amp and ohm load. For example if you have two 8 ohms subs, then that's a 4 ohm load on the amp, most amps (once again, large voltage rails needed) will double thier power in this configuration. However your right... the power is still spilt between the two subs - but since it was doubled with lower ohm load it's like getting another amp for free! BUT if you put two 4 ohm subs on an amp that can only handle a 4ohm load you'll toast it with a 2ohm load - So, CHECK THE MANUAL or call an Orion dealer!
Just to make things more confusing it depends on the wiring set-up and series vs parallel: Two 4ohm subs can give 2 OR 8 ohms depending on which you choose. In fact... you can mix and match, it's possible to drive four 4 ohms subs and still keep a "single" 4 ohm at the amp! And if your looking at dual voice coil subs then things get really crazy.
Personally I'd say if the amp can handle it (and you have the space) go with two subs since they will push more air (like a V6 vs a V8 - hehe). One one more thing... the subs must the same.
Turning the gains up will just send the amp into clipping (distorion city) so I'd avoid that at all costs.
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intense99dak
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
22:09:53
| RE: amp bridging
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Thank you very much for the great advice and know-how! ;-)
I went back to the manuals and I think I'm out of luck with bridging the amp. Orion has a diagram showing a three channel stereo configuration where channels 1&2 are used for one 4ohm minimum speaker, channels 3&4 are used for one 4ohm minimum speaker and channel 5 is used for one 4ohm minimum sub. There's also a notation stating "The lowest recommend impedance for each bridges channel is 4ohm.".
But, the amp manual also shows a diagram for five channel configuration whereas all the speakers are 2ohm minumum with exception of the subwoofer which is 4ohm.
Now I'm just taking a total stab in the dark, but what if my speakers are 4ohm stable, but not 2ohm stable (if there's such a thing). Would this solve my problems?
I am sooooo confused ...
As for the subwoofer, I currently have a Kenwood Tornado 8" that's rated at 100w RMS and is 4ohm. I understand that series wiring in a second Tornado will give me 8ohms. Would I lose any sq by adding the second sub? I'm not looking to rattle my windows. Just a little sq along with some "dazzling" visual effects (two subs stacked on one another between the seats).
dgedak99 - Great looking installation!! Any idea when you're going have the rest of the pics (neon and such) up?
Thanks again,
Chuck Robbins
'99 Sport
www.intense99dak.com
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intense99dak
Dodge Dakota
10/12/2001
06:40:33
| RE: amp bridging
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In the continuing saga of my plight, I reread the Orion amp manual again this morning and I found something that I missed last night. Under specifications, it mentions:
Power Output 4ohm stereo = 50x4 + 130x1
Power Output 2ohm stereo = 70x4 + 180x1
Power Output 4ohm mono = 140x2 + 130x1
With this said, it appears to me that if I do bridge two channels, I'll be getting an output of 140x2, but in mono.
- What is the difference (pertaining to bridging) between stereo and mono?
- Will I need to do something specific to ensure that the output is mono, or is it something that the amp does automatically?
- The bridged channels are going to be used for a set of components. Would sq be compromised by the mono output?
- Should I just scrap the idea of bridging and be content with 50w components? ;-)
Thank you for your patience,
Chuck Robbins
www.intense99dak.com
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
10/12/2001
13:43:31
| RE: amp bridging
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Chuck -
The difference between mono vs stereo is one channel (mono) vs two channels (seperate L and R). With the amp configured at 140x2 + 130x1 the front two channels will still be in stereo as long as you send the right-side signals to one channel and the left-side signals to the other channel. The 3rd channel is for the sub and will always be in mono (and 4 ohms) with your particular amp.
Not sure why the power ratings are different for the sub in those configuration examples above. If the amp can only handle a 4 ohm load on the single channel then the "2ohm stereo @ 180X1" is impossible to achive.
Speakers are either 2, 3, 4, 6, or 8ohms these days, thus there is no such thing as "2ohm stable speakers" only amps are rated for different ohm loads depending on how the speakers are wired up to them.
Given your examples I'd say your right on track - run a set of components in stereo at 4 ohms (140X2), then run the rear speakers off the radio (perfect for rear fill, I'm doing this myself currently) and finally a single sub a 4 ohms (130X1) off the mono channel.
To add a second sub and get the most power out of your amp you'll need either 2 ohm or 8 ohm subs. Two 4 ohms give either a 2 ohm load (toasting the amp!) or an 8 ohm load (with half the power divided by two or only 32.5 watts per sub - YUCK!).
So I'd sell the single sub and buy two 2 or 8ohm models (no difference). Adding a second amp would work, but you'll need to keep the two speakers in seperate enclousers since no two amps would give the same power and thus one sub would just fight the other - especially in the "stacked" (isobaric) arrangement you mentioned.
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intense99dak
Dodge Dakota
10/12/2001
20:47:55
| RE: amp bridging
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Excellent information, JMII. Thank you very much.
Chuck Robbins
www.intense99dak.com
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kev354
Dodge Dakota
10/13/2001
01:16:52
| RE: amp bridging
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ok heres a really dumb question, im not to keen with the audio, im new to this. is it possible to double bridge a 4 channel amp to make it mono? how could it be done?
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
10/13/2001
16:32:39
|  RE: amp bridging
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Chuck - No problem... I hate seeing people blow money on stereo stuff just because they are "learning". I might as well pass my information along and save someone else the headaches (and lost paychecks!).
kev354 - Quick answer: NO, you can only "bridge" from 2 ch stereo to 1 ch mono AND only if the amp was designed to do it.
Long answer: Actually it IS possible to use a 4ch amp to run a single (mono) sub if it had dual voice coils and if the wiring/signals were handled properly. However, you'd be better off with a large 2 ch or mono-block amp then pushing a 4 ch amp that hard I'd guess. This is one reason so many subs come with dual voice coils these days, it really opens up alot of configuration options.
- John
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ROSA
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/13/2002
11:55:21
|  OHM
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WHAT ARE OHM AND HOW DO YOU CHOOSE A SYSTEM?
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Clint
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/29/2002
11:40:55
| RE: amp bridging
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How do you bridge a 2 ch. amp?
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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3/26/2003
11:46:06
| RE: amp bridging
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I presently have a Kenwood KDC-MP922 head unit with the Music Keg hooked up to it. I also have (2) DEI 600d amps (old model) and just purchased the DEI 4500 that puts out 600 watts into 4 channels. I have a DEI 250 that I am taking out all together. I will be running 2 kicker solobarics, probably 10" L7's. My question is should I go with 2-ohm or 4-ohm woofers. I know the kickers handle more watts at 2-ohm, but how do I find out if my amps can handle a 2-ohm load. The plan is to use (1) 600d on each sub and use the 4500 to run my 5 1/4's, 6 1/2's and tweets that are BOSE factory in my Nissan Maxima. Good, bad idea? Any suggestions? Thanks
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/26/2003
17:57:11
| RE: amp bridging
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Chris -
The 4 ohm subs handle just as much power as the 2 ohm models - there is no difference, it just effects how you wire them. All the L7s (and L5s) are all actually dual-voice coils subs so they wire up as follows:
- The dual 2 Ohm woofer will give you a 1 Ohm or a 4 Ohm load depending on if the coils are wired in parallel or in series.
- The dual 4 Ohm woofer will give a 2 Ohm or 8 Ohm load depending on how they are wired.
So, check your amp's manual for the load it can safely run. I'd guess 4ohm mono/bridged or 2ohm stereo (pretty standard these days) so you'd want the dual 2 ohm models subs. Wire them in series and bridge each amp to a single sub.
Sounds like a good plan overall. I'd looking into upgrading those factory speakers because I'd bet they can't take that power. Also might be a problem since the factory system has an amp in it already (I'm guessing), so I'm not sure how those speakers are wired in. Do you have a crossover? I sure hope so!
- John
http://home.mindspring.com/~jntmoore/truck/home.html
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chad
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2003
18:23:36
| RE: amp bridging
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I have a jensen 300W amp, and it says 2 channel bridgeable. so how do I run the wires to bridge it?
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joe
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2003
18:38:34
| RE: amp bridging
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I have a set up that a friend sold to me, this is what I have, (1) 2 ch. jensen 300 watt amp, (1) 4 ch. hitron 800 watt amp (2)12" kickers, this is the way it was set up, the four interior speakers to the jensen and the 2 12" subs to the 4 ch. hitron, it sounds ok but kick as hard as I want it too, is there a different way to set this up so I can get more out of it???? also I just purchased a kenwood 2022 (50x4)stereo, since they installed it, it seems to not have as much power as it did when I had the stock stereo in. Is there a reason for that??? please help
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akaproph
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2003
17:38:46
| Chucks Website...
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Hey Chuck,
Your website has been down for a while now... Whats the deal?
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SLR5000
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/03/2003
19:14:22
| RE: amp bridging
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I'm back!
Umm... just wondering how you guys would wire up a 4 channel amp to a DVC sub? Would you bridge it to 2 channels, then run 1 of those to each voice coil? Also, with doing this, what do you do with the inputs? if you wire the amp to 2 channels, do you still need 4 inputs? sorry for buggin ya's
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
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10/03/2003
19:25:06
| RE: amp bridging
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SLR5000 - yes you could wire it that way... just make sure all FOUR inputs are getting the same signal via a set of "Y" adaptors.
- John
http://www.blueoceanpress.com/~storage/truck/index.html
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Steven
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/04/2003
15:42:25
| RE: amp bridging
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im not a totally newbee, however i dont know a whole lot. im running a lightning audio ff150.2 amp at 450 watts (2 channel) and it says, "not rocommended for impedance loads below 2ohms stero and 4ohms bridged (mono) loads." i am currently runnig the L+ and R- leads to my 4ohm 500 watt Pioneer sub (which i will hopefully be replacing). i was wondering if i would be able to run another sub, any make but hopefull JL, on the same amp and how i would go about doing this. i dont think i have left anything out but like i said i dont know a whole lot about what info is needed. im not all there when it comes to abbreviated terms like "sq". so please bare with me, and i appologize if this seems like a stupid question.
Thanx,
Steven
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FHATTCATT
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2004
08:15:24
| RE: amp bridging
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I am trying to have all 4 channels of a 4 channel amp drive 2 subs. How would I wire this to use all 4 channels to get the maximum power out of the amp. Please, if you respond, be as detailed as possible to say which side wires, front and back, and which + and - go where.
Thanks for any offered help!
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Lurkin
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2004
09:36:34
| RE: amp bridging
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It all depends on your amp.
It's possible to bridge the 4 channels to 2 channels, and wire a single sub to each channel. It's also possible to bridge the 4 channels into 1 channel, then wire the subs to present the proper load (ohms) to the amp. Both depend on the amp's ability to be bridged, and to what load it is stable down to.
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